SnowRunner

JTTs P12W, P16 and Derry 4520 REBALANCED for SnowRunner

Released (updated ago). Ranked 552 of 2,974 with 820 (1 today) downloads

Published by JTT (mod ID: 761182)

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Disclaimer: ONLY XML tewaks. Not crazy ones, very balanced and definitely never ever OP. Less than 1 mb for those who need to care.

Contents: Tweaked Trucks as Mod: P12W, P16 and Derry 4520 - "the three heavy stooges" of US maps.

Goal: The US Heavies are meant as a balanced mod and not a fun/op mod, sitting right in between the heavy RU and most medium 6x6 trucks. So with heavy load it shall perform better than a GRAD/Tayga.

Request for comments open. And yes, I know these mods are not OP. They shall be on the usable, but fun side of life being balanced. Each truck shall have some character. If you make a mistake, you will be still punished. It still won't fly across mud. But they should be now a nice option in the heavy class, especially for logging tasks with heavy trailers. As all three can transport long logs, P12 has the CATs medium log addon plus option for a medium log trailer. I personally like to play US trucks on US maps and RU trucks on RU maps.

Gameplay and list of major changes:

* all three get access to a slightly longer and more powerful winch. Unlocked at a sufficiently high level. Its an offroad driving simulation, not "World of Winching". All three have access to "mudchains", so these will work on icy roads way better than current chain implementations. These are derived from the P16 Offroad Tires, with chains you get a bit less grip in mud. KOLOBS as-in-game-benchmark are mudmonsters and very stable - so let these fat and stable RU rule mud & snow and the US counterparts shall have different strengths. Agility, gimmicks, style - whatever.

* Pacific P12: 25t weight (unchanged), got the CAT745 medium log carrier, with 250 to 275 K torque a perfect medium log transporter. "Special gearbox", so its not exactly fast. It never was in real life. Three tiresets available - all are dual rears. One is "stock", one is derived from P16 and the other is the chained version. Grip numbers in description. The chained ones are less "muddy" than the P16 Offroad tires - for sake of gameplay. Not one set to rule them all... Adapted the center of gravity, so it feels acceptable with respect to tipping over. Its neither as stable as a KOLOB nor as fast on its back as a drunken blonde in springbreak, as it was before ;) Have not tweaked the "not existing snorkel," so its the worst of the three in water and far away from being a submarine. But the one with the most ingame options with respect to addons.

* P16: Still 25t, shipped with offroad gearbox. Two tiresets available, got also some chains which do not suck in mud (see P12). Center of gravity tweaked. Steering angle increased, so that it can reverse better with a long log addon, now more agile than a P12. Its neither tippy nor "rock-stable". Still "special gearbox", so it isnt fast. The "original" had a topspeed of only 50 km/h with 500 HP. I suggest to start at 250K and go up to 300K torque as it does not have AWD (+25K torque with respect to P12 feels really OK). Climbing steep hills is as lacking AWD nots its best feature. But: as long as you have grip, that shall be the strongest truck. And you get a long winch for only 1 Credit, I'd take this. The Kolob with its 4 axles and all driven is still way better in mud, climbs better and will hardly tip over. If you prefer "A", stay with Kolobs.

* Derry 4520 got 8 of the "P16 front tires" as well as a set of chains to work on icy roads. Grip numbers in the description as soon as changes to stock tiresets were made. The suggested engines shall start at 225K torque and I recomment not to use more than 275K. That truck fully upgraded is now a nice nimble heavy, its also fast. Weight was reduced to 18 tons (Oshkosh 1070 according to Wikipedia). Its therefore less heavy and by gearbox way faster than the Pacifics. Gearbox with respect to stock parameters unchanged, but you get an offroad gearbox as the only option. Stengths: fast, agile, access to chains. Will still use a lot of fuel. Way not that stable and foolproof as the Kolobs, but its IMHO the best and most fun of the US heavies now.

Background: For those who care... I am trying to use real world physics as "balance" to push the US Heavies, but without creating another KOLOB. So the US Heavies are meant as a balanced mod and not a fun/op mod, sitting right in between the heavy RU and most medium 6x6 trucks.

As the game is a physics implementation, sometimes with "quirks" - and thats why some of the early implemented US vehicles simply did not work.

Fact #1: Power is proportional "TORQUE times RPM". Normally, standard 6x6 have 250-400 HP, heavies start at 400 to 700. As any Diesel engine has typically 2000 RPM and there are different tiresizes available, any normal application would use a gearbox to adapt to wheels. A "heavy" 700 HP engine has twice the engine-torque as a 350HP medium 6x6.

Fact #2: Gearboxes are theoretically torque converters. High RPM and LOW torque is traded for low RPM (enginel) and high torque (wheel). Thats why anyone wants to shift down at a hillsite. And thats not properly integrated by the ingame-gearbox, likely as convenience for console players & "kiddies". And this "torque at the axle given" implies, that any torque to a large wheel will result in less force with respect to ground as a small wheel will deliver. But the large wheel will drive faster at the same angular speed. Thats how the gearboxes in game work, they restrict the angulat speed. So 300K torque to an 80'' wheel will result in the same force to ground as a 40'' wheel with 150K, but allow twice the speed when using the same ingame-gearbox. Makes sense. Not. A common medium 6x6 truck has in the real world 250-350HP, heavies start with 400 to 750 HP and are slower in top speed. A stock 6x6 with approx 11 tons (ingame weight) has a torque between 150-210K implemented using a 43-50'' tire. Using 175K torque and 50'' wheel, thats for the 25 ton "big boy" with 59'' already 210K torque needed to have the same force with respect to ground at the same vehicle speed. Having to move twice the mass. And these 210K are the strongest engine vanilla US Heavies have currently implemented and thats, why these do not work as expected. So its not exactly "cheating" to use 250K torque for a 25 ton truck with 60'' wheels.

Fact #3: Tire width and size is ingame only used for "trackwidth / height above ground " and thus, stability. Traction is (IMHO) calculated from tire weight times friction. So a 200kg tire with 2.0 friction behaves the same as 100kg with 4.0 friction. Having a mud tire is twice as wide as a standard single one - the game does not care and that needs to be reflected by the friction coefficient.

Therefore, I have implemented a set of different engines for these havies, that allow you to select a certain torque (to play wound with) as well as some new tires, which take tire size and width for contact patch size into account. Enginewise, I suggest to start at 225K Torque with P12 as thats not exactly "OP". My impression is, that any of the Heavy US vehicles works well with 225-275K. P16 makes some fun at 300K. Theoretically, you ***** justify even more, as the heavies have typically twice the power of a medium truck. But as most cargos in game are too light - thats why 275K is ok. The Derry 45 with its high speed and keeping "power is torque times speed" into account - its OK with 275K torque max as its also "fast". So its in game the most powerful truck if you compute a vitual "power" number from maximum angular speed speed x torque. Feel free to give the slow P16 even more torque.

Releases

FilenameSizeVersionAddedOptions
ushvy.1.zip832.75kb1.0.3

ushvy.zip832.76kb1.0.2

21 comments

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BE
beefis @beefis

Have you tried messing with the gearboxes to abuse the torque curves? It's simplified but I feel like there's some potential there. If first gear angular velocity is set higher the truck's low-end torque will be negatively affected and slow acceleration, while low- can be used as a proper low gear with higher torque than first, and then engine power can be increased without making heavy trucks too zippy. Playing around with it I was able to make an almost passable 5-speed manual gearbox using gears low-, low, low+, high, then auto 2/2. All gears are capable of stalling too, though only high will kill the engine.

I think you're selling the game short when it comes to traction though, tire friction is not equivalent to traction - it's only one component of it. Turning up the friction on wheels is likely to cause more instances of the wheel 'jamming' effect from inadequate torque. If the ground is soft at all, the wheels should always turn even if the truck goes nowhere. That's correct behavior.

C
Chev8ball @chev8ball

Blueline-X Pacific P16 and Derry longhorn tweaks have excellent transmissions. P16 has a 9 speed while Derry has 12 speed.. they have excellent pulling power yet while still retaining the heavy-slow truck feeling , it's also nice cause they stay in gear and don't pop out and back down to first when going up inclines or going through rough terrain, I'd highly recommend checking them out

JT
JTT @jtt2

I have found no way how to set the gearbox for the various lows individually. The Angular Speed for H is defined in the gearbox definition, the AUTOGEARS too - but not the lows. I'd love to have a 5 Speed manual transmission. For me its looks like that the "FuelModifier="1.7"" as parameter behind the gear ratio is the amount of additional Torque you get by using that gear. Which is nonsense, as an engine with any given amount of power has in a gear at 10 km/h 8 times the effective torque than at 80 km/h.

I am sure, that the higher the FuelModifier for a certain gear, the higher the torque with the same engine. I know that traction is ONE part of the equation. But you cant get around, that a 25t truck with 60'' needs more torque at the axle than a 9 ton with 47''. And that was completely messed up by the developers.

I do not claim my setup is "perfect", but its a good step forward. If you work out a better gearbox setup & engine (thats why I impemented a lot of these), feel free to make some suggestions.

bartelbi7
bartelbi7 @bartelbi7

Really? I was pretty shure FuelModifier value is responsible for fuel consumption only. Guess I have to run a test about that having an effect on traction too...

JT
JTT @jtt2

If you have traction, it will start to "fly". Did something silly with 15 @ 5 in "High" and it was close to a liftoff. Reducing it to "1" was unplayable weak. Unfortunately, there is no explanation of game physics with respect to engine&gearbox; available. From real world physics: An engine in a 6x6 with 150K and 10 angular speed will be the same as a big boy with "250 Torque at 6" as angular speed of the axles. So 300K is not really far away from "real". But good to know that low is close to the settings of the first gear. Was just a few min ago playing around with settings, which have low fuel factors of 0.7 or 0.8 for the last gear but high torque. So you can put in a P16 for example a really beefy engine with high torque, without getting a speedy truck in Auto. I am still learning the game physics and its characteristics.

bartelbi7
bartelbi7 @bartelbi7

It did some testing, but the FuelModifier had no effect on traction at all, just on consumption. Would make not much sense if they connected those things, not having a speedy heavy truck is done via gearbox speeds and weight only...

BE
beefis @beefis

The speed of low is connected to first gear. If first gear is set too high the truck will be unable to accelerate at all even in low-. This doesn't matter normally, (as far as I know, all of the in-game gearbox values are low enough that all torque in first is the same across the board) but there's room for abuse there.

I assume fuelmodifier only affects the fuel efficiency of gears and not their torque but I didn't test it much

JT
JTT @jtt2

It affects both - torque AND fuel consumption. Ill try variations with first gear. Could be a nice method to make "Grunty, bot not too fast trucks". You can verify my assumption by changing the High Gear Fuel modifier to half or twice the number you see. You will feel the difference. At least I felt it. But I will reinvestigate.

JT
JTT @jtt2

Update: Bugfix for P12 and Buff for P12 integrated - there were two addon collisions and I gave it more grunt at the bottom, as it struggled in Yukon. Testmaps were OK, but "real maps" have their own challenges ;) Thanks for feedback so far. 275K Torque seems to be really adequate, 300K for P16. Unsurprisingly 2/3 more power demand than a medium Truck. As in "real life" and "with real physics".

TP
T0P @t0p

Thanks for the update. Just ran some more tests last night doing in-game missions and very pleased with the results. Excellent work!

viniciuscredendio
viniciuscredendio @viniciuscredendio

Looks like someone did the homework here hehehe!! Good explanation mate, no one could do it better. Love mods that implement realism instead of more overpower.

B
Bradb85 @bradb85

Just what the game needed. Excellent work bro

KE
keratrust @keratrust

good job, P12 et Derry 4520 are finally operational and not all rotten.

TY

JT
JTT @jtt2

P16 should work also with this mornings Update. Truck was unfortunately set as "unlockbyexploration" stemming from the original P16's definition.

RE
restorauntghost @restorauntghost

Kolob is not Russian truck

71
71paketa @71paketa

Have you tried combining the heavy truck customization with the real weight trailer mod? I wonder how it will work

JT
JTT @jtt2

Not yet. As I first care for the game playability. If you look at game maps, that has unfortunately little to do with "real maps". And I doubt that a good setup is doable. As the gearbox physics are kind of "junk" implementation. If you look at an 8 speed manual Unimog 1500, mine has only 130HP for 7.5 tons. But only 2 km/h in its first gear. So there was always a gear to make tires spin. I doubt that this gearbox implementation allows such a characteristic.

C
Chev8ball @chev8ball

I think he is referring to which in-game region these trucks come from... Just like Pacifics are Canadian but it's in-game region is referred to as U.S

TP
T0P @t0p

Thank you JTT for the work and effort to make these NA Heavy trucks what they should have been from the start. Much more realistic than the stock in-game trucks. Looking forward to the finished product. Thumbs Up!

bartelbi7
bartelbi7 @bartelbi7

Thumps up for the very informative and exact description about how the game is programmed, the RL translation of the ingame-physics and how lazy the limited game-engine is programmed. I also like the goal of creating what those 3 vanilla basegame trucks should haven been, once fully upgraded. Not OP but also not unreal weak.

JT
JTT @jtt2

Took me two weeks understanding how the game physics works, plainly try and error. They should have calculated the traction of a tire by taking a width and height with respect to a "reference" tire. So a mud-tire with 2 times the width would have two times the "grip" at the same friction with respect to reference. So the friction coefficient would only be "tire profile" and not "Tire width x Profile" as currently implemented. Would have made them balancing trucks way more simply than taking the weight of tire/wheel.

Thats by the way also the reason, why scouts with small, but wide "offroad tires" are underperforming. Friction only by friction coefficient is simulated too low.